The server economy is kinda dead

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Tiberaus
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I've brained stormed a few recipes for items on the non-renewable list. A recipe I thought of but didn't add to this list is a Snout Banner Pattern for 1 paper and 1 raw pork chop (since all the patterns are 1 paper + 1 item).

The idea is that only one recipe for each item is selected. (i.e. you wouldn't pick two different recipes for shulker shells.) Feel free to leave feedback or your own recipe ideas.

To reiterate my point above, I chose crafting recipes instead of trades because to me it feels more vanilla. I certainly think it better reflects our "Semi-vanilla" theme than a frozen npc at a booth.

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iron621
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Could we do a vote for the recipes? Personally I still like the idea of the Ender dragon dropping an elytra, but recipes are cool too.
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Tiberaus wrote:
16 Nov 2020, 12:44
Feel free to leave feedback or your own recipe ideas.
I really like the sponge recipies and the gilded blackstone recipes look really straightforward even though i would swap the resulting block numbers(aka 1 gold ingot and 4 blackstone for 4 gilded blackstone or 5 gold ingots and 4 blackstone for 8 gilded blackstone).
For Pigstep; either the crying obsidian, gilded blackstone, gold ingot or the netherite variant seems nice.

The cobwebs recipe looks adequate, if not a bit too good regarding the number of resulting blocks.

I dont see the use(or overuse) of netherstars and notch apples in recipes as healthy given that notch apples are super rare to get, or part of server events, and nether stars will raise the price of beacons and grant players that can reliably get those a monopoly.
Especially for elytra, given its need(periodic loss depending on play style and outfitting newer players with it) and the fact that there are multiple players on the server that currently already trade 2 elytras for 1 notch apple, the recipes with a notch apple seems quite unbalanced.
Personally keeping the elytras in the current admin shop would be fine(200k rhines or ~200 dias) or you could move a nether star trade here(something like 4 nether stars and 3 phantom membranes).

For heart of the sea I see dia blocks and nautilus shells or a trident as more appropriate for the item.

For shulkers I like the ones with the endrods most, but my suggestion would be 2 end crystals and 7 poisonous potatoes for 4 shells(or 1 end crystal and 8 poisonous potatoes for 2 shells), both limiting the amount total amount you can get by adding both actively and passively farmed ingredients but still keeping it cheap enough to get early and in large quantities if players are dedicated enough.

Furthermore i would propose a dragon head recipe using 2 end crystals/nether stars(one better fitting thematically the other better fitting the rarity), 3 dragon breath and 4 obsidian.


Also on a bit of a different note could these recipes be used to re-enable the dungeon region and its rewards or would that not be possible(as the items are only renamed and would thus enable cheating for the dungeon rewards)?
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Tiberaus
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You can't really have a monopoly over a crafting recipe. A monopoly on the server looks like someone with lots of wealth buying out all shops of a particular item, then selling it for a higher price in their own shop, thus forcing players to pay the premium. This isn't possible with crafting recipes (or any shop with unlimited stock for that matter.)


Here are two more recipes based on TheHypnon's suggestions. The middle nether star could be replaced with an enchanted golden apple if this one seems too inexpensive.
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For the shulker and pigstep trades, I agree that the recipes with the end rods and with the ingots seem the fairest.

As to whether dungeon items (As in, items with lore) can be used in recipes, that would be a question for Cob. I assume recipes can include items with NBT tags, but I haven't made a recipe data pack so I wouldn't know.
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TheHypnon
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Tiberaus wrote:
17 Nov 2020, 19:59
You can't really have a monopoly over a crafting recipe. A monopoly on the server looks like someone with lots of wealth buying out all shops of a particular item, then selling it for a higher price in their own shop, thus forcing players to pay the premium. This isn't possible with crafting recipes (or any shop with unlimited stock for that matter.)
What i meant here was a monopoly based on access to wither skeleton farms, should an item be primarily be gotten through crafting recipes using nether stars those people that have a steady supply of wither skulls will be able to dictate the price and availability of those items.

I just wanted to point out that if nether stars are used in the majority of the crafting recipes, then it will interfere with beacon supply and allow some players with huge farms an unfair advantage in dictating the price of the items.
Tiberaus wrote:
17 Nov 2020, 19:59
Here are two more recipes based on TheHypnon's suggestions. The middle nether star could be replaced with an enchanted golden apple if this one seems too inexpensive.
As i stated above enchanted golden apples might pose a problem given their limited supply but how about a netherite block?
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Wixler_17
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I do agree with the nether star thing being a monopoly. Personally, I think some the nether stars recipes should be replaced with netherite ingots since it is a non-farmable item. After going through the recipes, the only one that should be replaced with the netherite ingot would be the sulker shell one and the elytra mentioned in your second post. All the other items are not as useful as shulkers and elytras.
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Tiberaus
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A monopoly is when someone has exclusive control of an item- when they are the only seller. The only way for someone to have a monopoly on wither skeleton skulls (and thus nether stars) is to claim and block off every nether fortress- which is not allowed. You can't monopolize nether stars on BH.

Even if someone were to make an efficient skull farm, crank out tons of elytra, and jack up the price- others are still capable of acquiring their own nether stars. That's the point of the crafting recipe. The average person only needs one elytra and maybe a couple backups, hence the expensive recipe.

The idea behind these recipes is to convert a non-renewable item into a renewable one. For this reason, I favor the lapis heart of the sea, the nether star elytra, and end rod shulker shell recipes.

A nether star is a good crafting ingredient for expensive items because you can always get more, it just takes a bit of effort. Acquiring nether stars is arguably favorable to end busting.

Thinking about it, netherite may not be the best ingredient due to it's limited supply. That would pose the same issue as the notch apple trade.
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ZippierSteam456
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I think there needs to be an easier way for new players to get Rhines and Diamonds. Currently there are very limited things that you can sell to the sever to get Rhines and even so you don't even get to much from them. I think that needs to be more things that need to be sellable to the sever so that new players can get Rhines easier. This would allow them to be be able to buy more stuff which would help the mean issue. This would work of Rhines but with a lot of shops using diamonds there also needs to be a way to get them. Right now it is very hard to get diamonds because the resource regions have so many strip mines that you have to go really far out if you want any chance of finding diamonds. I think that if the resource regions were reset more often then it would be easier for players to get diamonds meaning they can buy more stuff that they need. I think might be able to help the economy but it won't fully fix the issue.

I also think that crafting recipes that Tiberaus is suggesting are a great Idea and if done well will make a great way to get certain items.
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Fiery_Eagle954
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Personally, I'm not in the favor of making elytras farmable, and only nether stars is what does this. Putting a notch apple in the center is much better as there won't be people hoarding nether stars for elytras and making prices for beacons higher
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Tiberaus
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I've consolidated the list based on your feedback. I think these are all fair and reasonably balanced. I can't guarantee these exact recipes will be added to the server, but this is the list I will be putting forward at the next senior meeting.

I've included a recipe for every non-renewable resource except for notch apple (would defeat the point of the elytra recipe), dragon egg (already sudo-farmable), and diamond horse armor.

I urge everyone to share their thoughts on this list. The spoken opinions of the few should not outweigh the unspoken thoughts of the many. Even if your opinion is "I think every recipe on this list should be added as is," please let us know!

Note: the large fern and tall grass would also be backward craftable.

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