Fix The Economy

You can talk about anything here.
User avatar
HayanTokki
Owner
Owner
Posts: 749
Joined: 10 Sep 2018, 10:42
Minecraft Name: HayanTokki

I meant to type reset rhines balance. If everyone starts at zero, we don't have the unfair monopoly we're bound to have when we set exchange prices on diamonds.
scifiguy7
Hermit
Hermit
Posts: 20
Joined: 23 Jun 2020, 16:25
Minecraft Name: scifiguy7

Is there a way to have an admin exchange for Rhine <-> Diamond that is kept in balance (rate of Rhine changes based on diamond ownership)?
Pairodox
Hermit
Hermit
Posts: 16
Joined: 10 Sep 2018, 17:19
Minecraft Name: Pairodox

HayanTokki wrote:
10 Jul 2020, 07:19
I asked for this conversation to be had. I'm glad it is being discussed.

For reference, on the seniors' end the quick fix is to open an admin shop where you can infinitely buy diamonds for rhines to force stop the inflation of diamond prices. But I think to do this, we would indeed have to set rhines balance on everyone so that everyone has equal chance of buying diamonds and gathering wealth. But then this renders the existing shops that use rhines a bit desperate.

The discussion is welcome. Please continue to discuss with the extra knowledge I have provided.
I personally think this is a great idea except in reverse (infinitely trading diamonds for rhines to establish an uninflated Rhine economy). Here our my views on the situation.
With the diamond currency, the main feasible unit is the diamond. There are no stable subdivisions because items such as emeralds and iron are easily farmable making their exchange rates unrealistic. This means prices can only really increase in increments of one diamond. This is especially clear with our pricing of most enchanted books, all capped at one diamond each.

The alternative is the rhine system. Rhines allow much more flexibility in adaptive pricing since they increase in stable, smaller units.

This makes them way more accessible to new players because the only way of obtaining diamonds is by mining or by selling desirable items. A newer player can't easily compete in the established diamond-using markets set by older players.

The only things we have to work out from here is a fair rhine price per diamond, and an adminshop would help take care of the rest.

Thanks for reading my essay, that's just my thoughts on the issue :)
"By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox" -Galileo Galilei
User avatar
HayanTokki
Owner
Owner
Posts: 749
Joined: 10 Sep 2018, 10:42
Minecraft Name: HayanTokki

But no one is selling diamonds for rhines. I would have to set up being able to buy diamonds for people to sell diamonds.
User avatar
Navyjay
Hermit
Hermit
Posts: 36
Joined: 10 Sep 2018, 16:34
Minecraft Name: Navyjay

Just so you know, I WILL be selling diamonds for rhines. I intend to sell them for 1,000 rhines a piece and will change their price to reflect demand. I have many diamonds and think that I should be higher on the /balancetop list. I would be if I hadn't hoarded my diamonds. And by selling these at a lower price, it will incentivize other sellers to come down to a fairer price (because they cannot sell any diamonds if I can supply them for cheaper).

All things considered, I prefer the rhine standard and if we go toward a rhine reset for all players, I will be buying diamonds so that I don't lose the value of my rhines, as I'm sure many players (including Posh, who has 33M Rhines as of the writing of this post) who have more rhines than me will inevitably do.

Thanks,

Navyjay
"Sir, an equation has no meaning for me unless it expresses a thought of God"-Srinivasa Ramanujan
Pairodox
Hermit
Hermit
Posts: 16
Joined: 10 Sep 2018, 17:19
Minecraft Name: Pairodox

If we were to go for a full conversion to the rhine standard a rhine reset would be pretty pointless. All it would do is complicate things by forcing everyone to buy diamonds only to sell them again for the rhine standard. A signshop that buys diamonds for rhines at a constant rate would solve that.
"By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox" -Galileo Galilei
Decaff_42
Hermit
Hermit
Posts: 13
Joined: 10 Sep 2018, 18:03
Minecraft Name: Decaff_42

Folks have mentioned disabling emeralds for trading, but I think that would take out a nice part of Minecraft, namely villager economics and trading for levels. You can get some nice loot from villagers, like enchanted books, golden carrots, cooked food, tools, etc. This is a feature of minecraft that I think we should keep. Without emeralds, you significantly reduce the trades that can be performed. In addition, it keeps open a market for items (like rotten flesh) that otherwise have very little use, and if folks setup shops for it, can make sure that new players have the ability to collect things and get something for it.

Instead of disabling emerald trades, why not reduce the price of emeralds to something quite low perhaps 5-25 Rhines? It takes a lot of grinding to get significant emerald, but this would massively dis-incentivize players from selling them to the server unless absolutely needed to get some "cash". Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the fact that you have to really grind to get emeralds one of the reasons it wasn't disabled like iron sales to the server? With emeralds worth only a little from a rhine perspective, you get a situation that if someone set up a villager trading hall, they could build up some rhines from farms/mines, etc, but not extreme levels.

With a lower rhine to emerald rate, you won't get a ton of emeralds being converted to rhines by players, but you will keep the villager trading mechanics that have a unique role in playing minecraft.

With regards to diamonds vs rhines, I prefer rhines. I have a bunch of diamonds but personally I dislike using them as currency unless for a special project/need. Even before rhines were re-introduced, I preferred just going out and getting the resources rather than spend my diamonds...I guess I'm a bit of a hoarder. :lol:

Personally I like the 250r per diamond from the old server however with how farming of other precious items (emeralds, iron, gold) has changed perhaps this isn't the best price. 10 gold ingots for 1 diamond feels like a very bad conversion rate, but that is just me.
systematicpro
Hermit
Hermit
Posts: 12
Joined: 05 May 2020, 04:58
Minecraft Name: Systematicpro

Question

Does the server know how much rhines each player has made from emeralds? If it does maybe just remove everyone's emerald rhines?
User avatar
Wixler_17
Old Hermit
Old Hermit
Posts: 51
Joined: 27 Sep 2019, 00:36
Minecraft Name: Wixler_17

Please take this idea with a grain of salt, my second idea is very unrealistic but could help form opinions on fixing the issue

The reason that diamonds are getting more expensive is due to supply and demand. There is a limited supply and there is a lot of demand. How do we fix this? More supply! How do you get more supply? Here are two of my ideas

-Admin Shops! Infinite Diamonds! The issue with an admin shop is if it is priced too low, they will be no longer used a currency. An example of this (although not the same situation) is V2 of the server, where almost the entire economy was Rhines based. The previous server sold and bought them at 250$ (at a point you sold them to the server for cheaper, 180$ a piece, but still had to buy em at 250$). That is the same value as 3 and bit stacks of stone or fewer than two stacks of other stone variants. If there is an admin shop, it would probably have to start at least above 500$, but I'd say that between 750$ and 1k$ is a bit more balanced. This also should consequently change the sell price of diamonds to the server, to reflect the buying price, but at a slightly lower value that buying price, similar to early V2.

-Changing diamond ore rates! If they are easier to find, there is more supply! It's hard to say how much to increase the spawn rate of diamonds, but I'd say by a multiplier of 1.5x to 2x. This does affect the vanilla gameplay, but it has been brought up that early players can get access to Rhines easier than diamonds. I'm am unaware how the resource is loaded, also, the feature to change ore generation within a world has been removed I think in 1.13... Food for thought

Removing villager trading would remove such an essential part of the vanilla experience of Minecraft. I am against that, although the selling rate of emeralds to the server should be reduced, if not completely removed. It has its own currency value within the vanilla game, and has a lesser purpose being used to get Rhines. If player want to sell em that bad, make a shop selling em.

Ps: Rotten flesh can be traded at central for xp bottles, in the building north of resource portals.
I went to bed and looked at the stars

and then I thought...

Where is my ceiling?
User avatar
Posh_D
Hermit
Hermit
Posts: 21
Joined: 22 Sep 2018, 20:30
Minecraft Name: Posh_D

Although considering I have the most rhines at the moment, I absolutely have no objection for a full rhine reset, but I should point out that I know some people have spent a huge amount of time in gathering rhines just as others have in gathering diamonds. Which is why we need a fair rhine - diamond rate so that people who have gathered diamonds all this time can sell them to compete with others in an equal playing field.

So I will be commenting on behalf of not having a rhine reset. Sure, yes we need to reduce the emerald - rhine rate as collecting emeralds is much easier with the updates, but this does not put everyone who has used this before at a massive advantage since, it is their rhine income which fades so that others who have been collecting diamonds can sell them (at the fair exchange rate we should decide) to compete in the balance top with others.

Now if a reset was to happen, in reality it would not help in converting the economy into rhines, as without any rhines and no competition in balance top, people will be compelled to buy and use diamonds as it will be the only currency used (as Pairo said).

If a full conversion into rhines were to happen, diamonds will have to be taken out of the economy, but that is not possible right now since almost 2/3 shops in market use diamonds as their currency. So I'd say that people need to be encouraged to use rhines in their trades (while also mentioning them to sell their diamonds at the fair exchange rate) to remove diamonds from being a currency.

I see that most people would like the rhine - diamond rate to be R750 - R1250, and now in order to make progress on this decision, I'd like to see ideas of a smaller range in between these numbers in the future, and also if anyone has any objection towards this range, please speak up with reasons and we can discuss it further.
Popping Up At The Top!
Post Reply